This is Economic Impact, conversations from Emirates Development Bank (EDB), the key financial engine for economic development and industrial advancement of the UAE. In each instalment CEO Ahmed Al Naqbi speaks to change-makers and thought-leaders in the UAE to learn how they’re contributing to the nation’s economy and realising the UAE’s economic ambitions.
Ahmed Badr is the Director of the International Renewable Energy Agency’s (IRENA) Project Facilitation and Support division (PFS) - the division which offers member countries dedicated project implementation support.
Here he talks to Ahmed Al Naqbi about ways to ensure that clean energy happens the right way.
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Speaker 1: HOST
Speaker 2: GUEST
00:00:00 INTRO V/O
“This is Economic Impact...Conversations from Emirates Development Bank”.
00:00:05 Speaker 1
A'Salaam A'laikoom. Welcome to Economic Impact, Conversations with Emirates Development Bank. I'm very proud and very happy to have with us today. Dr Ahmed Badar, the director of the International Renewable Agencies Project, Facilitation and Support Division at IRENA.
Doctor, welcome. A pleasure to have you here with us today.
00:00:24 Speaker 2
[Arabic Reverence Greeting here] It's my honor to be with you, Mr. Ahmed, and to be at ADB. It's really it's my pleasure. Thank you very much.
00:00:30 Speaker 1
Thank you, Sir. Thank you for being here. If we can just jump right into it, Dr, you were giving me a very interesting background before we started recording on your background of how you actually ended up joining IRENA and a bit about your, your experience and the different areas that you've worked in.
You’re actually a banking professional, a banker by experience and by trade and an engineer prior to that. But can you just give us a little, a little bit of your background and how you ended up at IRENA?
00:00:59 Speaker 2
Thank you very much, Mr. Naqbi.
I started as you just mentioned, Ahmed, as an engineer. Then I played about five or six years in international consulting engineering firm. Then I basically jumped into the banking development world. I started World Bank at that time. I was lucky because a young professional was basically accepting younger professional by the age of 35, I was below that.
After about five years in the World Bank, I went to Japan Bank International Corporation. I stayed there for about 3 years, then moved to European Commission, Europe and specifically in Brussels with for almost nine years or almost a decade’s time.
Then I moved to EBRD in London for about another five or six years then I was headhunted, actually, because as you as you just mentioned, Mr. Naqbi, I am a banking professional by background, this experience about these five International Development financial institutions took me more than 22 years, but at the end IRENA was basically looking for an executive to, to join the new development created when the Director General took office, Mr. La Camera, back in 2019.
So, he was looking for someone to create a new service provision for IRENA to provide to member countries, and that was me, and my division is mainly working on partnering with banks as we talk along the, the nice hosting by yourself. Mr. Ahmed, thank you very much.
00:02:27 Speaker 1
Thank you.
00:02:27 Speaker 2
That's almost 30 years. So I joined IRENA for almost four years
00:02:32 Speaker 1
Four years now
00:02:32 Speaker 2
Yes.
00:02:34 Speaker 1
That's great. And so from what I understood the division that you are heading essentially works on certain finance programs.
00:02:42 Speaker 2
Yes.
00:02:42 Speaker 1
Could you shed a little bit more light on that?
00:02:44 Speaker 2
Actually, as I just mentioned earlier, the, my division is mainly working on creating partnership with financial institution for two reasons.
IRENA is not a bank, but IRENA is going to work on the most hurdles, problems, that facing the scaling up of, of clean energy which basically how can we create a robust pipeline of investment bankable projects for banks like EDB and International financial institution to invest because as you know any, or, most of the clean energy projects - or renewable energy - it has a certain limit of risks, has to be mitigated.
Plus, also there must be some kind of measures along renewable energy, specifically on environmental and social and good governance -or what's called ESG. And that's exactly what we do.
We basically prepare or we look for project application comes from either private sector, countries, investors…basically coming to look for investing. So, in the renewable energy, globally.
So, we basically move in the old direction from South to West, from East to North. Plus, also working at all scale from MSME (Micro, Small & Medium Enterprises), micro, medium, larger scale projects. And we created two platforms, one of them among saving banks.
Here is I have to admire and to, sorry to explain and to express my admiration to UAE for its vision.
Why is that?
There is a very important story, Mr. Ahmad.
00:04:12 Speaker 2
I have to say here back in more than a decade time, more than in or in early 2013 or 2011, even, when IRENA was basically bidding to host UAE, the vision at that time but His Majesty [ARABIC REVERENCE GREETING HERE] Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahyan, and represented by His Excellency Dr Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber, they basically bid to host IRENA.
That was in Sharm Al Sheikh in Egypt. I still remember...I was at that time just joining the European Commission.
And one of the very important driving issues that moved the, the hosting for UAE because the other two other countries competing for that was Germany and Austria,
00:04:57 Speaker 1
Right.
00:04:58 Speaker 2
But what was made it winning for UAE is that UAE applied for offering US$350 million for investing in renewable energy globally through one of its basically sovereign wealth funds, which at that time it was ADFD, or Abu Dhabi Fund for Development.
00:05:15 Speaker 1
Right.
00:05:15 Speaker 2
And basically ,after a decade time, it has proven a very innovative idea where the whole world is following that because at that time this US$350 million attracted 26 projects competitively selected globally for 26 countries, most of which are from developing economies and the remaining part was least developed economies...
00:05:36 Speaker 1
Right.
00:05:37 Speaker 2
...and basically attracted some co-blended finance an additional US$650 million. So, in total it was 100 million, US$1 billion, invested by, by facilitated and through projects recommended by IRENA.
00:05:50 Speaker 1
Masha’Allah
00:05:51 Speaker 2
Now that has been…
00:05:52 Speaker 1
And these are these are global, global all over the world, yeah.
00:05:53 Speaker 2
That's global. That's global. Yes, that's called IRENA ADFD facility. This is the history that the UAE has basically contributed to IRENA.
00:06:02 Speaker 1
Mm – hmm
00:06:03 Speaker 2
So when the DG took office what he did as his legacy…he scaled up such kind of innovation and intervention and created a new platform called ETAF.
ETAF is standing for Energy Transition Accelerator Financing platform, which we took the same idea, capitalizing on the legacy of ADFD and basically back into COP 26, His Excellency Sheikh Abdulla Bin Zayed together with His Excellency Dr. Sultan Al Jaber during COP 26 in Glasgow in the UK, they announced the, the ETAF and basically this has happened with about five or six African President of Nations there, as well as our Director General, Mr. La Camera.
And basically, this has created almost a partnership with Abu Dhabi Fund for Development, Masdar, as founding partners as well. And also we have at that time Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Masdar has put has contributed US$200 million as equity investment in this platform. Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank put US$300 million as investment, also market-based rates.
And also Inter American Development Bank have contributed US$100 million - this all announcing during COP 27.
So, we took the time of between COP 26 to COP 27 to basically create the ETAF. Then from COP 27 to COP 28 where the UAE is hosting, we are working to operationalize it.
Where do we stand? And I'm very happy to say that with the political support and backing from the UAE, we almost we closed one 1,000 MW of investment, financially-closed across about seven countries globally, and that's really remarkable. This has put ETAF as the main platform for IRENA, under IRENA, and under my division is basically to be one of the leading platform in the sense that now United Nations Framework Convention for Climate Change in coming October, 17th of October, they will put it as a role model for other multilateral development banks to use it as basically the model that has to be replicated.
00:08:15 Speaker 1
This is fantastic. Those seven projects that you mentioned
00:08:17
Yes…
What type of, so you said 1000 megawatts?
00:08:21 Speaker 2
Yes, 1,000 megawatts.
00:08:21 Speaker 1
What? What type of projects are there, are they solar, are they wind? Are they any other kind of renewable energy or are they, you know?
00:08:28 Speaker 2
In a majority actually are solar-reliant, Solar PV and onshore, onshore wind, sorry, offshore wind, but actually there are other models like bio-energy, like bio-mass. But the major part of technology that we have invested in through our partners because IRENA is not investing, but we are building the pipeline with our partners coming from solar and wind.
00:08:50 Speaker 1
OK.
00:08:50 Speaker 2
There is another platform also I need to mention Mr. Naqbi. That's basically called the climate investment platform that helps us to create a long list of projects that ETAF is looking at them to pick what are relevant.
00:09:03 Speaker 2
These are called climate investment platforms that have been created in 2019 under the United Nations General Assembly Summit in September 2019 between IRENA SE For All, an initiative from the United Nations, as well as UNDP and close collaboration with the Green Climate Fund.
But we are now using the climate investment platform to create very long list of projects because we have more than 80 partners.
But the one that basically looking at financing and closing financial needs is ETAF, because that's basically how my division vision works. For sure this is IRENA. It's not my division, it's Irena everything.
00:09:44 Speaker 1
Any major announcements that you have for COP 28, anything that's coming up during COP 28 that you're looking to announce to the markets in the sense of these platforms or, or certain amounts that are being contributed to them?
00:09:54 Speaker 2
Yes, actually, yes. There are basically you know, we are expanding our partnership now Mr. Naqbi with new partners over the past few months.
We’ve already agreed, successfully engaged, with the OPEC Fund For International Development in Vienna. They’ve contributed an additional US$250 million.
Plus, US$3,000,000 technical assistance for projects as well. But the new announcement that we are coming to COP 28 as new partners basically are, er, we're going to have CABEI, which is the Central American Economic Development Bank for Economic Integration. We're going to have HSBC with US$250 million. CABEI is coming with US$100 million.
And Islamic Development Bank is coming as de-risking guarantees.
00:10:39 Speaker 2
I have to say one of the founding partners for also facility is Swiss Re for de-risking capital and finally we are going to have signing in October before COP 28 as an announcement is World Bank through Mega.
00:10:53 Speaker 1
Fantastic.
00:10:54
And I'm inviting EDB to join us as well in this platform. We can discuss that after the podcast.
00:10:58 Speaker 1
Insha’Allah, Insha’Allah, we'll be very happy to look at that and work with you and to work along alongside you on that.
00:11:02 Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:11:03
What are the major challenges that you've seen? So, I mean a lot of work has gone into this and definitely to set up all of these platforms over the past few years and it sounds like they're, you know, really gaining some traction and they're, they're effective, but we all know that in order to get to the point of probably where you are today, which is, you know, you're starting to build that traction, you must have faced a lot of challenges.
What's the major challenges that you’ve faced and had to overcome over the past few years in order to build these platforms, but also to be able to attract the right partners with their financing capabilities in order to participate on these platforms?
00:11:33 Speaker 2
Thank you for this very smart question, Mr.Naqbi.
00:11:36 Speaker 2
There are external challenges and there is also market technology related challenges. The external challenge is that basically the business models that used to be happened over the past five decades for co-blending finance and to attract partner financial partnership is basically coming, that one coming from one model which basically what we call the trust fund model that one bank take the whole money and act on behalf of all other banks, while actually the main challenges for the new platform we created is that we are going to work based on the newly innovated European model, which basically all banks come together and each bank will control its own proceeds, but based on what you call a decentralized approach, so meaning there will be one lead bank who will take the due diligence, others will do it as well.
But there will be one transaction bank leading the other together and IRENA is to going to create the pipeline of projects that's exactly the external…because it's a new idea. It took us some kind of time and challenging discussions to bring partners, but now because you need to prove the idea, and that's exactly what happened.
That was, it took about two to three years to create ETAF, but it happened and now I'm very happy to announce that with your nice broadcast that the model or the business model we created under ETAF, has proven a success. The other challenge that keep going is basically the, the availability of bankable projects; the very important number I would like to share Mr. Naqbi with you in a simple way is that each 40 project application, you can find only one bankable project.
00:13:20 Speaker 1
One bankable.
00:13:20 Speaker 2
So, the second challenge connected to this availability of bankable project is basically the availability of relevant banking regulations in order for the investor to invest.
So, it's not only about project bringing the revenue, but it's also about institutional and policy-based conditions that allow investors to invest in and for sure the sale the issue is the disparity of skills…
00:13:45 Speaker 1
If I just ask about the bankable piece, because that's obviously very relevant to us that it's Development Bank, when you say the bankability of the project and approximately 1 in 40 are bankable.
00:13:55 Speaker 2
Yes, yes.
00:13:55 Speaker 1
Do you mean from a feasibility perspective or do you mean the availability of equity?
For the collateralization of the project, from what angle do you typically find that it's not bankable from the 39 that are not that are not bankable. What are the main concerns of the bankable?
00:14:09 Speaker 2
It's all what you mentioned. Basically there is no availability of er, there must be some kind of own equity,
00:14:16 Speaker 1
Right.
00:14:16
It’s sometimes not there…
00:14:17 Speaker 1
Right?
00:14:17 Speaker 2
If you're looking for 20/80 or 70/30, most of the time equity sharing, that's basically acceptable for other investing banking or investing partners, you're not there. There is a lot of institutional and regulation element not there.
There is not enough resources. Assessment is not there. We all know that renewable energy is based on assessment of resources, the availability or the availability of resources is not enough in order for, for us to recommend this project or for the bank to invest like for example, in case of, of wind you need to make sure there is at least two years of, two to three years of resources assessment of wind.
Plus, sometimes of strong wind regime, you need to look for what we call it ornithological or bird immigration study. Otherwise you are going against environmental balance.
00:15:05
Right.
00:15:07 Speaker 2
Or the same for when the issue of solar magnetic induction should be there. If it's not there, how can we do and it should not be based on risk-based assessment. It has to be real meterological assessment…
00:15:19
Right.
00:15:20
It's just an example, but all what you're seeing, availability of commercially viable resources, a good revenue that will bring the investor in, investing regulation in order to flow the fund in and out because any investor would like to have his money for his own resources and you collect the revenue.
00:15:38 Speaker 2
In general, if I would like to say there is always eight sets of risks, has to be covered. Technology, risk;
00:15:45 Speaker 1
Right.
00:15:46 Speaker 2
Flow risk, flow or I mean hard currency risk; environmental risk; weather risk and there is big difference between environmental risk and environmental risk and weather risk, sorry. And also we need to look for the construction risk, as there is basically issue of institutional risk. So, all these these risks has to be covered and all this when we look at any project each of 40 project we got hardly one. That's exactly what we see.
00:16:10 Speaker 1
Right, right.
00:16:13 Speaker 1
So, for the other 39, yes, because for, for me this is a very interesting topic because this is a a challenge that has to be tackled from your perspective. And IRENA, of course, you built out the platform. You can bring the he banks to the table in order to provide the funding or the financing for the project.
But there is also this gap that we've seen also at Emirates Development Bank because we also have renewables, energy finance products and we have solar financing products and so on. We found that that on the other end when it comes to the entrepreneurs, we faced similar kinds of challenges and I guess my question is…
Erm, how can we bridge that gap on the entrepreneur side? Because typically what we find is one of two issues.
Either a) It's an entrepreneur who is more in the science field and very much into the science, or the technology aspect of the project that they're looking to do or they are investors who are, you know, very much on the number side of things, but don't necessarily have the subject matter expertise.
00:17:15 Speaker 1
And they won't necessarily have the ability to understand how to present these transactions or these deals to banks…
00:17:23 Speaker 2
Yes.
00:17:23 Speaker 1
So, when they come to, to discuss it with the bank they won't, they won't…there's a, there's a miscommunication in the language, almost to say, like speaking the language of the bank in order for the bank to be able to make it bankable.
00:17:30 Speaker 2
Yes.
00:17:31 Speaker 1
So, I'm curious have has there been any thought given to how to support the entrepreneurs or the scientists who are doing these projects in order for them to, let's say, better prepare themselves before approaching the platform or the banks?
00:17:48 Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely. Er, I believe you're talking about small to medium size of investment.
00:17:54 Speaker 1
Yes.
00:17:54 Speaker 2
That's exactly the case. Yes, we are preparing a set of capacity building programs. And here is I would like to, to call for something that we, I did actually personally when I was in EBRD and we are implanting that now but gradually with our countries that we call it Green Economy Financing facility.
That's basically for such kind of small to medium entrepreneurs, we create some kind of what we call it off-the-shelf product, meaning if you would like to if you would like to invest there is also a ready mix, bankable project template that you can basically use it for entrepreneurs who would like to invest. Basically, if you're talking about if you mix as a bank for this for this part to mix some kind of what we call it, sectoral investment plateau, for country or for a town.
00:18:29 Speaker 1
OK.
00:18:46 Speaker 2
Or for a city like Dubai, and basically you availed that with specific acquisitional rate of financing for lending. So there basically there must be some kind of off-the-shelf, that's what we do. That I'm doing that in Ukraine, we visit Ukraine and I give this example, we found that the architectural structure of Ukraine basically high rise building like Dubai here.
And they are, they're completely lacking any kind of investment in renewable energy. And you don't have resources.
00:19:10 Speaker 1
Right?
00:19:10 Speaker 2
So, what we do is what we're doing now that we are designing what we call off-the-shelf investment at basically at solar rooftop level at household level, but also for small and medium scale for industry and also for lighting.
00:19:25 Speaker 1
Fantastic.
00:19:25 Speaker 2
So, there are about three or five basically, files for each type of projects and we add to that, that was in EBRD and I believe banks could do that also, we create basically a complete catalogue of in what are the products the solar PV panels, the technology, what, what is the best, best radiation kind of solar solar panels.
So, we put everything and basically we prepare as IRENA.
What we call it capacity building up to private sector through the respective government because our main client is government. So, they create or they basically create the demand by inviting interested entrepreneurs to come to have such a kind of training and after that they come and invest based on a well-known standard...
00:20:09 Speaker 1
Yes, respecting environmental and social...
00:20:12 Speaker 2
...governance of within respective country, because its rule is changing from one country to another.
And making sure what is, what are the institutional, technical skills, qualification and rules for licensing for basically connecting to the grid, for basically how to meet the revenue, how to make the flow and if there is any kind of exporting some kind of equipment or importing such kind of equipment because some countries we do that in Southeast Asia, they export panels because also are supporting manufacturing of solar PV...
00:20:44 Speaker 1
Right.
00:20:45 Speaker 2
...manufacturing. So, all this we are doing but because of limited resources we have in IRENA we do that on part of the scale, but for sure based on availability of volunteer contribution from other countries, we scale that up, for sure, Mr. Naqbi, if when we come to banks, banks can do more and I have to refer here to the good model. I like the EBRD Bank in London. They are really they are very innovative…
00:21:06 Speaker 1
Which bank is that, sorry?
00:21:07
That’s EBRD, European Bank for reconstruction development.
00:21:09 Speaker 1
OK, OK.
00:21:10 Speaker 2
That's a London-based bank. And EBRD basically, is basically if, if and this is also very goodish, what is how Europe successfully come to basically reaching some days in the year of complete parity on the renewables because of a lot of small households and small and medium enterprises.
This is how they make a complete, full, fully or two days per year in Germany and UK coming from solar rooftop, from, from renewable energy because that was basically the main engine for them. How? By availing through commercial banks and basically development banks with their respective country the what you call it concessional loan, so, at household level at small, medium and medium level, at larger scale level, that's exactly the case.
So, green economy financing facility, putting some kind of standard package for lending. Any entrepreneur can come and use it and if they need training they can d… we do for developing countries and least developed countries where banks can do that for medium and high standard countries.
00:22:14 Speaker 1
That's fantastic.
00:22:14 Speaker 2
I hope I answer your question, Mr. Naqbi, but it's a very smart question.
00:22:15 Speaker 1
Yes, definitely, definitely. And, and, in in quite some detail and, and Insha’Allah I would want our organization to work with you on those templates that you had mentioned.
00:22:25 Speaker 2
We'll discuss that over coffee after I finish the broadcast.
00:22:29 Speaker 1
Yes, definitely, definitely. OK. So, Irena is based out of Masdar here in the UAE?
00:22:33 Speaker 2
Yes.
00:22:33 Speaker 1
And as you had mentioned that this was something that was bid for and you know, the setup happened, I believe was it 2009?
00:22:44 Speaker 2
2009, yes.
00:22:49 Speaker 1
When they had won. What have you seen in the sense of the benefit that has come with this being in the UAE? How has the UAE also been supportive in order to establish and set up the ecosystem around around IRENA through Masdar? Just some thoughts on that. Have you seen anything yet from there?
00:23:07 Speaker 2
Yes, before answering I have to tell you for me, as I was just telling you before the podcast right before that for me, the main legal one of the main legacies for UAE is renewable energy.
It’s a flagship for whatever you're talking about energy, the name of UAE is in. Now, basically to answer your question, let me tell you that the UAE is sincerely beginning the committed, politically speaking, and it's very important at political level, at technology level, at young level, young generation level, to commit themselves, to work on renewable energy by creating Masdar which is a global player now in renewable energy.
Second, they basically, they commit for 2050 Carbon Neutrality plan, or Net Zero plan from the very advancing country globally, globally.
And basically reaching 50% of the energy mix coming from clean energy by 2050, that's really in an exporting OPEC country, that's really massive…
00:24:14 Speaker 1
Right.
00:24:14
...and it's unique and advancing.
The third issue is that, don't forget, that one of the big global solar parks globally is His Excellency Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum Solar Park, here. Not only that, what's more important is that if you look forward investing globally and what His Majesty Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed announced for investing US$100 billion for 1000 GW globally is happening now by Masdar and other partners.
And, for the time being, if I talk for my country for Egypt, very soon, or sorry very recent that happened about a month ago that master signed off the PPE. If I'm getting that right, sorry, the land acquisition, the land, the land allotment for 10,000 MW solar offshore wind…
Sorry, wind offshore, wind offshore in Egypt, that's really supermassive.
So, this and that's not only the case if you look for the 1,000 megawatt to financially closed, our new partners was Masdar representing 892 megawatts of solar PV financially flows in Uzbekistan.
00:25:21 Speaker 1
Right.
00:25:22 Speaker 2
So, it's not only about what UAE is doing, which I considered what UAE is doing inside UAE, but also what UAE is doing as its legacy, globally. This is what I see UAE is doing and for sure on top of that IRENA, sorry, is hosted by UAE and basically they’re giving us the space...
00:25:32 Speaker 1
Right.
00:25:41 Speaker 2
...and annual voluntary contribution to support the globally through the all the facility, EDFD and the current ETAF, that's also part of what UAE is doing in the space, the global space of renewable energy.
00:25:54 Speaker 1
That's great, that's great.
00:25:55 Speaker 1
Thank you. Dr Ahmed, one final question, Dr Ahmed.
00:25:59 Speaker 1
What are your aspirations for COP 28?
So, COP 28 obviously is around the corner, just a couple of months away. Huge event, huge event for the country and it's being obviously hosted at, I believe, the Expo in Dubai. We should have people coming from all over the world in order to showcase everything that's been done here in the UAE, but from IRENA’s perspective, what is the aspiration? What would you like to see come out of COP 28?
00:26:27 Speaker 2
Well, as mentioned by our Director General, which I share his aspiration as IRENA that, and let me quote two important quotes from Excellency Dr. Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber in his capacity as the President Designate for COP 28.
It's an open invitation for partnership. That's our aspiration arena. We are doing that with the political backing from UAE.
But not only that.
But more important in partnership with Hazard, the lobbying partners. So, our aspiration is simply in a second quote is that let's go to basically solve the problem of access to finance.
Without adding to the burden of basically of debt on countries by creating new financing business models, it's not only by green bonds. It's not only by concessional funding, but there are some important new financing mechanisms that's coming and approaching now like for example co-blending finance between banks, basically bringing local banks from the countries because you have to share what you call ‘skin in the game’ and we are going to present such of this, some good examples of this during COP 28.
This is our aspiration to showcase new financial models with financially closed projects based on global invitation for partnership, as Doctor Sultan mentioned and as our Director General also mentioned, through ETAF which we are doing together in partnership with Masdar, with UAE as Government and with Abu Dhabi Fund Development.
That's exactly our aspiration. We already implementing that. We wanted to showcase, we already delivered and I'm very happy to be part of this, led by our Director General.
But actually, and thanks to the government of UAE and all partners, and that's exactly our aspiration and we are delivering on this.
00:28:22 Speaker 1
Dr Ahmed Badr, thank you so much.
00:28:24 Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:28:25 Speaker 1
We appreciate your time today.
00:28:25 Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:28:26 Speaker 1
And Insha’Allah, wish you all the best for your work at IRENA and for COP 28. Thank you again.
00:28:30 Speaker 2
Thank you very much
00:28:31 OUTRO V/O
“Economic Impact. Conversations from Emirates Development Bank”.