Welcome to Economic Impact, conversations from Emirates Development Bank (EDB), the key financial engine for economic development and industrial advancement of the UAE. In each instalment CEO Ahmed Al Naqbi leads insightful discussions with change-makers and thought-leaders in the UAE to learn how they’re contributing to the nation’s economy and realising the UAE’s economic ambitions.
Welcome to episode six in season two of Economic Impact: Conversations from EDB’.
This time we hear from the CEO of TA'ZIZ, Mr. Mishal Al Kindi.
TA’ZIZ is the world scale chemicals and transition fuels hub taking shape in Al Ruwais Industrial City in Abu Dhabi.
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Speaker 1: HOST
Speaker 2: GUEST
00:00:00 INTRO V/O
“This is Economic Impact...Conversations from Emirates Development Bank”.
00:00:05 Speaker 1
A’Salaam A’laikoom and welcome to Economic Impact. It's my pleasure today to introduce my dear friend, Mr. Mashal Al Kindi, the CEO of TA’ZIZ. TA’ZIZ is the world scale chemicals and transition fuels hub taking shape in Al Ruwais Industrial City in Abu Dhabi. Welcome, Mashal.
00:00:21 Speaker 2
Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
00:00:22 Speaker 1
Good to have you.
00:00:22 Speaker 2
It's an absolute pleasure.
00:00:23 Speaker 1
Great to have you. Mishal, can we start just by asking a bit about yourself a bit about your background? Uh, how did you come to where you are today? Uh, handling TA’ZIZ and then we'll talk a bit about TA’ZIZ and the formation itself.
00:00:36 Speaker 2
Sure, I am mechanical engineer. I joined ADNOC in 2008. I mainly worked in project management and program management. Uh, I've spent 15 years or so in ADNOC, uh, worked in upstream, midstream. I've worked in the executive office looking at…
00:00:56 Speaker 2
Our capital portfolios, I was also lucky enough to be part of setting up new joint ventures in the upstream.
00:01:02 Speaker 2
And in the last four or five years, I've been, uh, more towards the downstream, er, sector and the midstream and downstream, uh and since February 2023, I joined TA’ZIZ, which I believe is a very natural step towards going further and further downstream and adding value.
00:01:23 Speaker 2
So, um, it's been a very exciting journey - and a very lesson-oriented journey as well.
00:01:30 Speaker 1
Great, great. Er, you, you touched on the fact that you've helped establish a lot of new ventures. Could you just touch on that? What kind of ventures were they and which ventures were in ADNOC?
00:01:42 Speaker 2
So, I was part of setting up, I was part of the team that set up the joint venture, which today is, is called Al Dhafra Petroleum...
00:01:51 Speaker 1
OK.
00:01:51 Speaker 2
…which is a joint venture between ADNOC and a Korean consortium…
00:02:00 Speaker 2
Er, so we started off from scratch building or developing oil fields, which are marginal in nature…
00:02:08 Speaker 1
OK.
00:02:08
…and more challenging.
00:02:10 Speaker 1
Interesting.
00:02:10 Speaker 2
So, it was an, it was a very exciting endeavor and I'm glad to say that it's actually producing oil for the past few years…
00:02:19 Speaker 1
Oh fantastic, OK, so there’s good results. Yeah, it's always interesting. The world of ADNOC, so many…it's a huge, huge conglomerate with so many moving parts. And definitely the, I'm assuming the experience that you had setting up a lot of these ventures is what naturally took you to TA’ZIZ and then setting up the TA’ZIZ program. Could you touch on TA’ZIZ what what is TA’ZIZ? How did it come about? And then we'll talk maybe a bit about the objectives there as well.
00:02:41 Speaker 2
So, TA’ZIZ is…a vehicle. It's also a partnership between Abu Dhabi National Oil Company and ADQ, both Abu Dhabi major players.
00:02:54 Speaker 2
Erm, it's a partnership with a number of key goals in mind. One is developing new value chains in the chemical sector…
00:03:01 Speaker 1
Mmmm Hmmm.
00:03:01 Speaker 2
…capitalizing on our current feedstocks within our current value chains. Erm, it's also aimed at diversifying our economy as a UAE...
00:03:08 Speaker 2
Adding new capacities in global, in the global transition fuels market…
00:03:15 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:03:15 Speaker 2
…that's basically bridging the gap between fossil fuels and renewable energy…
00:03:22 Speaker 1
Right.
00:03:21 Speaker 1
OK. Very interesting. From what I also understand is that it's also taking advantage of some of the raw materials that are produced locally. And then as you said, going up the value chain and, and taking advantage of, of capturing as much of that in the local economy, in the UAE. Could you touch on that?
00:03:39 Speaker 1
I mean, what, what, first of all, what are some of these raw materials or extracts that are that are produced locally that we are hopefully taking advantage of or, or going to be taking more advantage of?
00:03:49 Speaker 2
So mainly you have transition fuels like methanol…
00:03:57 Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
00:03:58 Speaker 2
…Low carbon ammonia.
00:03:55 Speaker 2
They are transition fuels, but methanol is also a feedstock for further conversions and further chemical conversions. We're also going to be producing PVC - Poly Vinyl Chloride - which is a key feedstock or key material used in construction, healthcare, transportation and even the energy sector.
00:04:15 Speaker 2
So, to produce these, the raw, the raw materials you need are chemicals like ethylene. So, we produce ethylene in ADNOC…
00:04:24 Speaker 1
OK.
00:04:26 Speaker 2
…through Borouge. We have natural gas that we produce in ADNOC. So, we have nitrogen. We have hydrogen. So, to produce these elements, these are the feedstocks that you need. So, we have a reliable supply of these elements. With ADNOC that we're gonna capitalize on.
00:04:39 Speaker 1
Fantastic. And, and what would you say that these account for from, erm, and, and you know this might be much more complex question that I'm asking, but you know how does it account for as a as a size of sector or potential size of a sector that could be tapped into is there is there. I'm sure you must have done a lot of feasibility studies and, and business-case planning. So I'm just curious what's the potential opportunity here if you're able to leverage this feedstock or the various ones you just named?
00:05:07 Speaker 2
So, what we're building is world scale…
00:05:09 Speaker 1
Mmmm Hmmm.
00:05:09 Speaker 2
..and that's why it's, it's important that major players like ADNOC, ADQ and are a set of major industrial partners take this endeavor because you need substantial investment for this. This year we've moved into execution to build our one million tonne low carbon ammonia facility.
00:05:28 Speaker 2
When we talk about methanol, we're talking about 1.8 million tons per annum, another world scale sizing. So, a substantial addition to the market. And when we talk about PVC and then, you have some intermediary products as well like VCM.
00:05:44 Speaker 2
Vinyl Chloride Monomer. You have EDC, which is the Ethylene Dichloride that's part of the PVC chain. So, it requires a multi-billion dollar set of investment portfolio which, which we're happily investing in as Abu Dhabi and as our international partners and it also, also brings in the opportunity for further conversions. And to be honest with you, hundreds of end products…
00:06:13 Speaker 1
OK.
00:06:13 Speaker 2
…so, the conversion possibilities that these, this first set, opens is, is immense.
00:06:22 Speaker 2
Of course, we ran the numbers and you talking about thousands of jobs. You're talking about GDP contribution of multi-billion dollars. So, it is quite sizable in capacity and in the contribution towards the economy as well.
00:06:37 Speaker 1
I was gonna say on that on that piece on the contribution, what it sounds to me is that then.
00:06:42 Speaker 1
It should feed into and hopefully open up the possibilities to produce a lot of local manufacturing where it might have been, you know, a cost barrier there to bring in some materials from outside the country to produce locally but it sounds to me that a lot of these end products will then feed directly into the various manufacturing sectors in the UAE, allowing the UAE to produce certain items much cheaper than they would have previously, in the past. I've seen it by the way, with the with the polymer. I've seen it in some of the factories that I've visited with the polymer where they're taking it now, as a feedstock from, from Borouge. But it sounds to me that you guys, what you're doing is essentially replicating that across multiple products.
00:07:22 Speaker 2
I agree with you. That's a very good point. So, we've done that in the polyethylene, polypropylene…
00:07:27 Speaker 1
Hmm.
00:07:27 Speaker 2
…side and the idea with TA’ZIZ is to immensely diversify.
00:07:32 Speaker 1
Mmmm…
00:07:33 Speaker 2
While our aim is to be a player and have a good market share in the supply of transition fuels to the world, it is also very important for us to reduce import imports from outside. So, let's take PVC, for example.
00:07:51 Speaker 1
Mmmm-hmmm.
00:07:52 Speaker 2
You do have imports of PVC for manufacturing here. The idea is to bring in, to the UAE market PVC that's competitive - and also add more opportunity for further expansion in the PVC…
00:08:07 Speaker 1
Right.
00:08:08 Speaker 2
…conversion so PVC has a plethora of uses, so the opportunities for developing, manufacturing of end products based on the PVC that will be produced here are immense, so…
00:08:20 Speaker 1
Right.
00:08:20 Speaker 2
…so, that's one example, but the same applies to methanol.
00:08:24 Speaker 1
Right, right.
00:08:25 Speaker 2
So, most of this is going to happen for the first time in the UAE.
00:08:28 Speaker 1
Fantastic. OK, if I can ask a bit about Al Ruwais because I know that this is really going to shape Al Ruwais and the development of Al Ruwais into the future, er, Al Ruwais is, is a very much an industrial city. I know that it was established, if I'm not mistaken, in the 70s, in order to really cater for the work that's being done out there for the oil and gas industry. But it's become really a city on its own and it's really been shaping up. I have friends from, from out in Ruwais, so I've passed by a few times myself. I'm just curious, what are your insights being, you know, heading such an important program that I believe is shaping a lot of the future of Al Ruwais. How do you see that shaping into the future for, for Al Ruwais specifically?
00:09:11 Speaker 2
So, as you rightly mentioned, Ruwais is already a, a big hub. Whether you take it as Al Dhannah City, City of Dhannah, which is growing at a rapid pace which provides actually a, a very comfortable place to live and spend time in…
00:09:27 Speaker 1
Right.
00:09:27 Speaker 2
So, it's not just an industrial…
00:09:29 Speaker 1
It's, it's beautiful out there, by the way…
00:09:30 Speaker 2
Thanks.
00:09:30 Speaker 1
…it has the best some of the best beaches.
00:09:32 Speaker 2
It does. It does. And when it comes to the, as an industrial hub, you already have a huge refining complex. You have a huge Polyolefins complex and you have gas.
00:09:45 Speaker 2
So, TA’ZIZ is basically in an ideal location where you have feedstocks, you have facilities that, that complement setting up such businesses; plus you also have the opportunity to cater for a lot of these businesses. So, within TA’ZIZ, we have the industrial chemical zone where we're setting up these chemical facilities that I just described. We also have a light industries area, so this is more to allow for local players to set up shop and cater for the future and current phases of TA’ZIZ, but also allow them to serve the overall Ruwais ecosystem and I think the potential for, for, for Ruwais and Dhannah city is, I mean we're just starting out…
00:10:34 Speaker 2
This is just the beginning, its location, the way it's developed, the way the amount of integration that it allows and it offers, I think, it's, it's, it's very attractive for whether it's for service providers, whether it's for light, er you know, manufacturing facilities and, and players, whether it's for bigger players.
00:10:57 Speaker 2
And its geographic connectivity is ever increasing. So, I'm sure you've driven there. It's very easy to drive there. You also have Etihad Railway…
00:11:04 Speaker 1
Yes, yes, that is one of the stations in south there.
00:11:06 Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you have the marine terminals. TA’ZIZ itself will be building a chemicals marine terminal.
00:11:12 Speaker 1
Mmmm Hmmmm.
00:11:12 Speaker 2
So, you're connected through every medium possible…
00:11:16 Speaker 1
Right?
00:11:17 Speaker 2
And yes. So. So I think I think the potential is huge, and we're just starting out.
00:11:22 Speaker 1
Great. Umm, TA’ZIZ, from its inception, from what I recall, was really set up in partnership with private sector players along with the ADQ and the government of Abu Dhabi through ADNOC obviously to come together. Could you touch a bit on the importance of partnerships? What are those partnerships that have occurred in the past and what potential partnerships could happen in the future. I know that the TA’ZIZ program, just like, you know many other development programs in the country have been very much, you know, tying in the ecosystem. So, bringing in a lot of partners in order to work together. But could you touch on that?
00:11:59 Speaker 2
Of course. So, partnership with TA’ZIZ is a key tenet. The whole idea is based on partnerships, so ADQ and ADNOC is a partnership that that brought TA’ZIZ into existence, right? But beyond that, we have, I'm, I'm glad to say that we have established the first private public partnership…
00:12:21 Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:12:21 Speaker 2
…in our chemical projects with eight of our local entities, local business entities.
00:12:27 Speaker 2
And we're really excited to have this kind of partnership. So, it's the first time where they haven't, you have local entities who've invested alongside companies like ADNOC or ADQ into the actual chemical projects. You then have a number of strategic partnerships with major industry leaders. So, if you talk about methanol for example, we have a partnership with Proman - Proman is the second largest methanol player in the world...
00:12:57
Hmmm.
00:12:58 Speaker 2
So, methanol is going to be produced for the first time in the UAE…
13:01 Speaker 1
Mmmm Hmmm.
00:13:02 Speaker 2
…so they bring in the know-how, technology, best practice and they also bring the market access, international market access. So, in the long run that helps upskill and diversify the skill set that we have, diversify the, the know-how.
00:13:18 Speaker 1
Mmm-hmm.
00:13:18 Speaker 1
So, you have companies like Fertiglobe where, er you have Mitsui, you have GS Energy from South Korea. So, you have major partners who bring in technology, know-how and market access to have the best combination and, of course, investment, right? I mean all these partners also bring in direct foreign investment, which is a testimony that these are investments that are going to make you know, as we say, future proof our value chains and allow us to have resilient businesses that are designed to be robust and designed for the future.
00:13:58 Speaker 1
Fantastic. Fantastic.
00:14:00 Speaker 1
What do you foresee for the future of TA’ZIZ? So, where do you see your, this organization, going in three to five years time? Are there any key objectives or milestones that you want to see achieved and, and how do you really foresee the future for you guys?
00:14:14 Speaker 2
So, as I earlier said, where we, we, we've moved into execution on the ammonia on the ammonia facilities and we're going to be entering the execution phase of most of our projects in phase one. And, so that's one to see this to fruition. We're also building a port and marine terminal, a utilities hub because that is all about integration. It's all about leveraging synergies.
00:14:38 Speaker 2
And it's not just one phase. The second, third phase where we are going to double down on decarbonization. So, we're going to decarbonize further. We are going to add a number of new chemicals that that we you will hear in the next year, you know, a year or so you're gonna hear a lot of things happening at TA’ZIZ. So…and most of these, if not all, and I'm being cautious by saying not all but most likely all of these chemicals are going to be produced in UAE for the first time.
00:15:07 Speaker 1
Fantastic.
00:15:07 Speaker 2
So, there's a lot to come. We're also looking at a, at a low carbon steam cracker. Again, that opens up a plethora of opportunities to have all kinds of exotic and special, specialty chemicals. Again, for the first time in UAE.
00:15:25 Speaker 1
Great. That's amazing. Mr. Mishal Al Kindi. Thank you so much for coming in today for having this conversation. I wish you and the TA’ZIZ organization the best of luck and success in all of your objectives, Insha’allah. Um, it's fantastic to hear all of these kinds of things that are going to be hopefully being produced here in the country and TA’ZIZ being a key player, we at EDB are very proud to work alongside you. Thank you.
00:15:49 Speaker 2
Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.
00:15:51 Speaker 1
Thank you.
00:15:52 Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:17:49 OUTRO V/O
“Economic Impact...Conversations from Emirates Development Bank”.